Atheist Misogyny

[EDIT: I failed in writing this article. I have written an explanation of that failure here. I am not going to remove this article because, like everyone, I have to learn from my failures.]

My sister had big tits. Like huge. I remember her blowing out her sixteenth birthday cake and accidentally leaving two huge boob impressions in the cake. They were big enough that they caused her back pain. They were big enough that they had to be reduced through surgery. And they were big enough to bring out the really gross in boys.

Personally, I didn’t give a crap about my sister’s breasts. She was my sister. They could have been shaped like Alfred E. Neuman for all I cared. But I saw how guys were to her. They spoke to her chest. They accidentally brushed up against her a lot. They wanted to date her because of what they thought they could do to those breasts, and not because of who she was. And my sister, though she was nothing like me, was a great person. All of this crap frustrated her beyond belief, and it is with great joy that I can say she wound up marrying one of the best men I have ever known and living happily ever after.

But all that behavior really disgusted me. I swore I would never be That Guy, and I think I’ve done an admirable job of treating the women in my life. I just don’t understand why people have to act like that.

Rebecca Watson (oh yes, THAT Rebecca, the troublemaker who goes out of her way to ruin everything for everyone forever by *gasp* telling guys it’s not okay to be creepy and gross) posted a frustrated rant the other day about a picture of a fifteen year old girl holding up her Christmas present, a copy of Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. This was posted in the r/atheism reddit, and it became the source of a lot of really disgusting misogynistic comments, never mind entirely inappropriate given the age of the girl. She was disgusted.

And you know what? She’s fucking well right. Even if you rule out the age of the kid, a picture of a pretty female does not make it okay for thousands [edit: this is an exaggeration on my end, please take it as such] of creepy guys to start talking about how many holes she has. That’s despicable, and we’re better than that. Only we clearly aren’t.

Now, not all atheists are misogynists. Nobody’s saying that. What Rebecca was saying, and what I’m reiterating and many others have as well is that misogyny is a problem in the atheist community. And it’s a problem we don’t need and I would hope don’t want. Life’s hard enough being an atheist, why do we need to make it worse for ourselves by not stepping up when we see behaviors that are disgusting and demeaning within our own?

Nobody is saying this is a problem only with atheists, but that’s one of the quickest rebuttals out there. Yes, the problem exists in other spheres of influence, but why does that excuse our allowing it to happen in ours?

If you think it’s okay for those kinds of comments to be associated with us, if you think it’s okay to call Rebecca a lesbian bitch whore, if you think it’s okay to treat women like second-class citizens, then I don’t want you around me or my friends. I’m tired of people asking why there aren’t more women at atheist events. We know why. We have done a piss-poor job of creating an environment where they feel like equals. We have created the situation by assuming that they are there because they clearly want to touch our privates.

Me, I like having women at atheist events. Not because dude that girl is hot and I bet she wants to do me, but because women are people with different experiences than mine and often have interesting things to say. So my promise to the women in my world is this; when I see misogyny, I’m going to punch it in the teeth. I would expect others to join me in this. I will be there to keep you safe and stand up for you when others are acting like it shouldn’t be a big deal or like you’re just misunderstanding. Bullshit. I’m in your corner. If I want to have you around, it’s because of who you are, and not because of what you look like.

Jim

[edit: At no point in the above post did I say that all or even most reddit users are misogynists. At no point in the above post did I say that all or even most atheists are misogynists. At no point in the above post did I say that misogyny is an atheist problem. It is a problem in the atheist community that should be addressed, and a problem in many areas of society that should be addressed. At no point in the above post did I say that people didn’t have the right to say these things, I said I wasn’t going to put up with it.]

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About biguglyjim

Like a caterpillar that spins a coccoon and emerges as a walrus with a mohawk, Big Ugly Jim has become something unexpected. Raised a fine young Christian boy in the city of Calgary, Alberta, Canada, Jim began to question his teachings, first evaluating the wisdom of other religions and eventually realizing that none of them seemed any more accurate than any other, and not a one of them made a lick of sense. Today, Big Ugly Jim is a musician, a Business Analyst with Large Oil Company Whose Name Is Not Important, a music promoter with the Calgary Beer Core, a writer of fiction and non-fiction, a prick, an atheist, a father, an ex-husband, a role model, a horrifying vision in a red speedo (or at least he would be, if ever that happened which IT WOULD NOT), an announcer, and soon to be an officiator of weddings. Also, he's nice and does dishes. Jim continues to live in Calgary, spreading his filthy doctrine of free, critical thinking and appreciation for music.

98 thoughts on “Atheist Misogyny

  1. THe problem that the atheist community is having, that you seem to be missing, is that you’re discriminating against them unfairly.Basically you’re implying that this problem is more prominent in atheist communities than other ones.  Even when you overtly say you aren’t saying that, you’re still saying it.  Your overt denials are nothing more than adding “I’m not racist but…” before saying something racist and excuse you no more than those do.Look at a hypothetical example.  Lets say you made an article called “Black thieves” and how upset you were with all the black people stealing things in your neighborhood.  You focused the entire article on specific instances of black people committing theft and only tempered it by mentioning once or twice “by the way, I know other races also steal in equal quantity, but seriously black people. what the hell?”.  To then get upset when black people started bitching you out and calling you racist is absurd because you clearly singled them out, and implied by the very existence of your article that there was some difference or elevated importance to the theft commit by black people.If you think that misogyny is a larger issue in the atheist community you have to show why and how.  If you don’t you have to not write an article singling out atheists.  You can’t slap “I don’t hate atheists but…” on your rant and then expect it to excuse you from singling them out.

  2. I just want to note that if the real users of /r/atheism take such offense to the ideas in this post that perhaps next time the misogyny really starts to get out of hand within their community they attempt diffuse the situation rather than upvote the perpetrator.

  3. You’re leaving out one very important detail, Eric. He’s one of us. If a black person wrote an article about other black people stealing, it would definitely be more offensive than coming from a white person, and rightly so. It’s up to the members of the groups with which they identify to call the group out on their bullshit. 

  4. “Life’s hard enough being an atheist, why do we need to make it worse for ourselves by not stepping up when we see behaviors that are disgusting and demeaning within our own?”How do we “step up?” I am an atheist, but I have never been to a convention. I participate on various atheist forums, but I have only rarely witnessed misogyny on display in any of them. When I see it, I call it out.I have seen multiple blogs and reddit posts about this incident – many rightfully outraged.However, outrage is easy – solutions are hard. It is easy to write a blog decrying misogyny amongst atheists (or any other group for that matter), but what good does it do? Is misogyny going to disappear, because you blogged about it? I am skeptical.I understand and share your outrage. However, I am at a loss for a solution. Holding hands and chanting, “misogyny is bad,” has not worked. So, I put the question to you: what do you want reddit atheists to do about it? If your answer is simply, “call it out,” I’m afraid that has been tried already, and it doesn’t work. 

  5. The problem I have is that the girl in question make sexual jokes about herself. She made jokes (bracing my anus, naked in a penthouse) that were sexual in nature, that is what lead to the sexual jokes. If a guy were to make sexual jokes, people would make sexual jokes about him as well. If you make sexual jokes, expect others to assume that you find them funny. Don’t forget that Rebecca Watson is the one that equates being  asked if she’d like coffee with being raped. She jumps onto anything that she can in hopes of finding the “evil misogyny of the atheist community” that just isn’t there. Rebecca Watson suspends her skepticism and rational thought when she holds onto her faith that their is misogyny in this community where there isn’t. The reason Watson isn’t respected by many (including me, a misogynistic female? I guess?) has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her actions. She jumps on shitstorms like this to publicize herself, and make more money off of the people that then read her inane posts. The Feminism community does have legitimate complaints, and it is a community that I am a proud member of, but Rebecca Watson doesn’t focus on real issues and instead uses her fame for “I WAS PRACTICALLY RAPED WHEN THE EVIL MISOGYNIST ASKED ME IF I’D LIKE SOME COFFEE!!!!!11ELEVENELEVEN!!!!!” posts. I hope she either grows up, or people catch onto what she does. 

  6. When I see an article about why misogyny is bad, no matter what religion, or creed, or color, or race. I will take it seriously. It is no more a problem in atheist circles as it is any other.The issue that you should have written about is how ill informed Rebecca was in her article, and subsequently your defense of her likewise based on the ignorance, should not have been about any subset of human circles, but about humanity in its entirety.It’s not an atheist problem, it is a mankind problem, it should be treated as such, and not laid at the feet of any given subset and blathered on about how it is a problem for them in any specific way. Of course it’s a problem for atheists, the exact same way it’s a problem for many other subsets.Frankly, I would argue it’s likely less of a problem for atheists, have you seen how religion speaks about women? Have you seen how religion treats women in other cultures? Christianity is no different, there are many women through the bible belt who are raised to be obsequious and honor thy dominant male husband.The reason people gave Rebecca shit for her article is all of these reasons. You could have seen that and written an article based on defense of her idea, but with a true and better motive, but… you didn’t, and very few people will be taking your seriously from the atheist community because of it. 

  7. More than my hate for feminism, especially second wave feminism (which Rebbeca Watson is dangerously close to being an anachronism of) I hate people even more. Same with “men’s rights” advocates or what the once proud leaders of human rights during the civil rights era have become now. Your ethnicity and gender are minor elements immaterial to the fact that you are human. Humans as a rule do not foster safe environments for other humans. If I were trapped in an elevator with a guy at 4 am I’d be nervous and harassed, too. Most people would be, age or gender. Now what would make nearly anyone uncomfortable and afraid they might get raped or tortured or killed or beaten up is if instead of some guy, it was a gang of any gender or ethnicity suddenly jumping on with you. It’s not women or men who suck, it’s people. Especially when they form mobs.

  8. lesbian bitch whore

    It frustrates me that any of those words are used by people who wish to be insulting. What’s wrong with being a lesbian? With being a female dog? With being a sex worker?

  9. I’ve been reading reddit for years. The noise level went up significantly after /r/atheism got added to the default set for the front page. I didn’t really pay any attention to that post after I saw it. My only thought on seeing the pic was “Oh, cool”.

    You don’t have to be a subscriber to vote up posts in a subreddit. I doubt that the bulk of people who acutally subscribe are members of the upvote brigade on the juvenile rants in that particular post.

    I could as easily say that Christianity is misandrist and feminist. Our “Christian” nation has bent over backward to kowtow to the feminist agenda. Say something against them and you’re branded misogynist. Merely suggesting that women automatically having the upper hand in family court, or maybe that domestic violence is actually initiated equally by men AND women, gets you branded, flamed, and banned from many subreddits.

    It’s the Internet. You have to grow a thick skin.

  10. Basically you’re right, and with such a profound stance against misogyny and, being such a staunch supporter of women’s equality and a defender of all women in the entire world, I’m sure that you’re going to get mad hoes. I salute you, oh White Knight at some site I’ve never heard of.

  11. While I do think it’s fair to call out anyone — atheists included — who is being a dick, I also take issue somewhat with the way Ms. Watson characterized the issue. It was, at best, irresponsible.The way Reddit works means that anyone can and will post and vote on comments on whatever subreddit they choose, whether they subscribe or not. /r/atheism is a default subreddit, which means people will see highly-rated posts on the front page unless the explicitly opt-out.So seeing inappropriate comments on  an /r/atheism thread:Doesn’t mean “atheists have a misogyny problem”, because /r/atheism does not represent atheistsDoesn’t mean that “atheists on /r/atheism have a misogyny problem”, because not all of the 300,000+ subscribers are necessarily atheistsDoesn’t mean that “/r/atheism has a misogyny problem”, because there’s no reliable way to establish (without some assistance from reddit administrators) whether the commenters in question were even subscribers to /r/atheism, and whether /r/atheism subscribers were the source of the many upvotes they gotThe only real criticism that has foundation is pointing out that moderators in /r/atheism chose not to delete those comments. But even this isn’t fair criticism unless we can reasonably be sure that the moderators were aware of them in the first place.And assuming it’s fair criticism, the moderators do in fact have a defense: they don’t delete offensive comments because the potential for abuse and outrage is too great.So, what are we left with?The comments were clearly inappropriate and sexist in the extremeThese comments were highly-rated, which means a lot of people who saw them approved/thought they were funny. This is further evidence of sexismReddit AS A WHOLE clearly has a fair number of misogynistic assholesSo while I find it entirely appropriate for Ms. Watson to call attention to the situation, I do think it’s a little unfair of her to draw the conclusion that it is atheists or even /r/atheists who are the source of that problem.

  12. Some people made some childish comments, and this is somehow surprising? For all we know they may well be children, there are a lot of teenagers on reddit, and the internet in general.I also find it hard that anyone is taking the comments seriously. They are obviously attempts to be funny, in a sniggering childish way.

  13. You haven’t contributed any more than Rebecca has. In fact, all you’ve done is reiterate her point, and we don’t need you to do that either.The simple fact remains that the MAJORITY of people on that thread AND that subreddit punched those retards in the pants on the first whiff of idiocy. Eric is absolutely right – like Rebecca, despite saying that there are still good people on /r/atheism etc, there still are many goons – you’re doing EXACTLY the same thing Rebecca does – misrepresenting a group. She has a real issue with Mens rights activists for the same reasons she hates /r/Atheism right now. I’ve spoken to her in private communication and she simply states a disclaimer which apparently frees her of the backlash of her words.Look mate, it’s not good enough. Stop treating this like its some kind of epidemic between atheists because frankly – this is the internet. Also, you’re Canadian – shit is DIFFERENT everywhere else. I’m Australian, just because you’re an atheist here doesn’t mean we’re on the same team – EVERYONE else is an atheist. Reddit is an international community and not everyone is going to share the same atheistic sentiment that you do. Not everyone is persecuted for having a reasonable idea of how the universe works, and a result, not everyone feels the need to automatically band together against a threat that simply doesn’t exist in their country. Misogyny is everywhere – but the shit that went down in that thread was either entirely NOT serious, or ALREADY condemned by other people.Good day sir.

  14. eric said it better and nicer then i will.Atheists are nothing more then non-theists.There may very well be racist atheists, They may very well be rapist atheists. No atheist is defending such actions. Some people that are atheists MAY, But that is not due to atheism.You implying atheism is at all misogynistic is just as stupid as PZ myers saying it.We are not on some ‘better level’ then the theists OR any other demographic, religious racial or otherwise, we are not above rude comments or petty arguments. (Don’t get me wrong, I do wish we were)So please stop posting this ridiculous crap. Rebecca watson is nothing short of a sexist pig, Thank you.

  15. @Eric:  No he’s not. All he’s talking about is his experiences in the atheist community. At no point does he say atheists are the only culprits. I agree with everything biguglyjim said. I’m not going to go to any trouble explaining, because more experienced people have already done that for me (take a look at how the writers at FreeThoughtBlogs have tackled this).

  16. ” “At no point in the above post did I say that people didn’t have the right to say these things, I said I wasn’t going to put up with it”What is the difference? If you’re really going to punch people at the first glance of misogyny… well, enjoy that jail cell. There’s a reason people like you are locked up. Solving things with violence is just as idiotic as those you’re criticizing. And the insinuation that you weren’t singling atheists out is pure bunk. When you bash the ‘atheist community’ for a single issue it implies that it’s something actually characteristic of that community in particular… and honestly, it isn’t. Atheists have very little tying us together, other than a lack of belief in god(s) and generally a like of the scientific method. Atheists CAN be misogynistic. They can be racist. They can even believe in ghosts and demons if they like. This entire rant is characteristic of someone who wants the Atheist community to be something it’s not. It isn’t really even a community per say. It’s just a collection of people who agree on one particular issue; and the moment you start taking it beyond that one issue, like women’s rights, you’re going to run into problems.Besides which, none of the examples you quoted were that bad. I guarantee basically every one of those was a joke made for humor. I don’t think it speaks badly of the atheist community just because you lack a decent sense of humor.

  17. I think a lot of people are overreacting to this. She responded to the creepy jokes in a “omg you guys.. whatever :P” kind of way, and a lot of those comments where actually pretty creative Carl Sagan references.

  18. Eric, Did you fail basic reading comprehension in grade school? The author answers you right in his post, which you obviously failed to read. I’m feeling charitable, so here’s the quote:”Nobody is saying this is a problem only with atheists, but that’s one of the quickest rebuttals out there. Yes, the problem exists in other spheres of influence, but why does that excuse our allowing it to happen in ours?”

  19. @EricThat’s not what he’s saying at all. He’s saying that misogyny exists everywhere and that we should not tolerate it within our community, because it exists here as well.Women are equal to men. This is not debatable.Yet, there are men who think it’s okay to say sexual things to women that make those women uncomfortable. There are men who think that a woman talking to them means that woman wants to sleep with him. There are men who talk about how hot a woman is, making shallow judgements about her and thinking of her only in a sexual way, not as a fellow human being.This isn’t right.It is not the problem of any one community, but all of them. There are people like this in every community and it needs to end. Why should we accept it in our community?Everyone should rally together to put a stop to misogyny. Nobody should have to feel uncomfortable or that they’re in danger due to sexual comments being made about them.Posting a picture of yourself is posting a picture of yourself. It is not a sign that says, “Make sexual comments about me.” Unless, of course, you’re posting a pornographic picture, which the user’s picture clearly was not. She’s 15 for crying out loud!

  20. Here’s an illustration that might help:Imagine you live in a house that’s in a neighborhood. The neighborhood is extremely diverse and almost infinitely large. Anyone can build a house there and make whatever rules they want. Some houses are big and let anyone walking by come and go as they please. Others are closed and there are rules of conduct that must be obeyed in order to occupy that house. Let’s say that one day, an attractive girl walks into your house and starts up a conversation, only to have a crowd of jeering creeps shout out comments about her blood anus and how many holes she has. A few shout back, but the people who are there overwhelmingly support the harrassment. Most of the people who regularly visit the house, even the people who built and run the house, didn’t see it.Imagine if upon learning of the incident, the guardians of the house said “well, that’s too bad but we don’t want to curb the free speech rights of the jerks. So she’s just going to have to toughen up.” Would you be surprised if that house got a bad reputation? Would you think that house deserved its reputation?The solution, by the way, isn’t to leave /r/atheism in disgust, because that will only leave a larger proportion of sexist assholes than there is now. All of us need to be more diligent and pay more attention, keeping an eye out for this behavior.

  21. This isn’t a problem with the ATHEIST community, this is a problem with PEOPLE on the goddamned INTERNET.  If anything, by posting this you’re just giving a bunch of ammo to quote-miners and fundamentalists. 

  22. The Rebecca Watson Recipe for Causing a Shitstorm in the Atheist Community and Generate Pagehits.1) Market oneself as a sex object and sell it to atheists.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bc7uRF_JZI2) Complain about being talked to by male atheists for their evil sexual agenda.3) Cook up some BS story about an imaginary man in an elevator who proved that male atheists are rapists.4) Announce success in taking down Richard Dawkins on personal blog and declare oneself a savior of this war.5) Repeat and be followed by unquestioning bloggers.

  23. 4b) Attack any fellow women who disagree with one’s interpretations as “ignorant” and part of the patriarchy, misogyinst in front of everyone at a conference.

  24. Please learn how reddit works. Rebecca Watson failed to do so, and now there’s all of this drama directed at atheists and r/atheism  which is really misguided.Posts to reddit which reach a certain level of “hotness” can become “front paged” where it is seen by EVERYONE. That means people who aren’t subscribed to r/atheism see it easily when visiting reddit. And now that r/atheism is a default subreddit to new users, submissions don’t need to reach as high of a level of hotness before it shows up on users’ front page.And no, not even comments with “455 points” means that a majority of a subreddit or subpopulation of reddit agree with the comment.http://www.scribbal.com/2011/10/infographic-interesting-facts-about-reddit/90% of visitors never make accounts, and 90% of people who have accounts never vote. Even assuming that 10% of r/atheism subscribers actually voted up misogynistic comments, it’s not accurate to label atheists or r/atheism that way. And considering that the entire submission had only about 3,000 total votes after the Watson article was published, we’re talking about 1% of r/atheism who voted on it – AND that’s assuming that NO ONE ELSE on reddit voted on it, which is just wrong.

  25. A couple of points:The post appeared on the front page or Reddit where it was seen by every Redditor, not just the Atheists. We have no way of knowing how many of the “disgusting” comments came from atheist Redittors.The “disgusting” comments were jokes. In poor taste perhaps, but jokes. The young lady in question started another thread to say that she was sorry for all the fuss that came out of this and she was in no way offended.No one knew she was only 15 until the thread had been up for quite a while.Reddit is an internet forum. People do and say things on the internet that they would not do in real life because of the anonymity there.To take this case and try to make it into “Atheists have a problem with misogyny in the real world” is absurd. Some might. But from everything I know about atheists, including the ones o Reddit, they are probably the most egalitarian, most progressive, least bigotted, racist, sexist group of people you could possibly find to identify by a single word.Your rant is absurd.

  26. It has nothing to do with atheism.  It has everything to do with idiots on the internet.  Your association of idiocy with atheism just because it happened on an atheist forum is stupid at  best and malicious at worst.

  27. Am I the only one who is going to point out that like 75% of redditors are ex-/b/tards from 4chan.Reddit has a habit of stroking its own ego… but you fundamentally can’t hold it to a higher standard

  28. Hey biguglyjimYou’re an idiot. Everybody on the internet can post whatever the fuck they want on reddit, so stop trying to fit them into your own little demographic. Sincerely,The dude who gets it.

  29. r/atheism isn’t any more misogynist than the rest of Reddit. The problem is that Reddit in general is an echo chamber of rape-apologists, misogynists, and general romantically-challenged man-children that anything involving ladies that’s posted on the website immediately gets flooded with those kinds of comments.

  30. While i agee that many of those comments were in bad taste, and shouldn’t be said in any situation, i feel rebecca Watson astronomically overreacted in her criticism of r/atheism to a point of stupidity.  what the respnses to lunams post indicated were a general immaturity, borderline petulant remarks that sadly anonymity encourages(as any1 playing mw3 can attest too) and stupidity. however, that was all it was, STUPID IMMATURITY. Anybody with any common sense could see that the far majority of the comments in question were not made with ill-intentions to scare Lunam, but with a primary motive of immature humor. Does that justify the behavior?should it have happened? NO, of course not, but to paint it as anything more than just that is folly and pointless provocation . which is exactly what rebecca watson did.  She essentially equated that behavior to rape threats, an implication that infuriated me, as did the multiple comments on her blod equating r/atheism( and the rest of reddit) to the cesspool of the internet, an accusation that is far from true. with the amount of compassion, understanding, and charity that r/atheism and reddit has shown, such a claim should be impossible to make, but there it is.Lunam was made to feel uncomfortable, and she more than certainly has a right to be angry, but she, as well as any other reasonable person can see and understand that the far majority of those people meant her no harm, and were not thinking past what would make fellow immature redditors. in conclusion, no Rebecca Watson was not right and how she chose to play the role the white knight on her high horse in this situation is reprehensible to me, and while the behavior on reddit leaves much to be desired, it is far and away on the positive side of the internet.

  31. Pingback: Some men get it « blue milk

  32. This is lazy. That’s the best word that I can think of to describe the whole debacle. It’s lazy, intellectually and creatively. You throw around a lot of Really Important Words with the glibness of a first-year philosophy student, completely ignorant of the depth of the hole you’re digging yourself into.The major problems have all been covered to various degrees by other commentators, so I’ll just add what I haven’t seen yet. First, you added zero fucking content to the discussion in this post. Not a single new thought, not a single novel permutation of an old thought, not even a single quotable line. At the end of the day, this is all going to amount to nothing more than a bunch of wasted bandwidth because you, you fucking shill, decided to cash in on a publicity circus and garner yourself some blog hits. Well, here we all are, and I hope we’re all running adblockers and just leeching away at your server capacity.Second, whose fucking feminism are we violating here? I wasn’t aware that it was a monolithic movement with a unified set of guidelines, or even a unified set of goals. In fact, my conversations with the feminists I’m personally acquainted with had led me to rather the opposite conclusion. It’s an enormous movement, more than large enough to contain multiple non-overlapping subgroups. Your casual disrespect for this fact, and the risible assertion that we should all subscribe to whatever little subgroup you’ve cleaved to for publicity purposes, gives the lie to the feminist credentials you want so badly to imply that you possess. This isn’t about the women. It’s about the caricature of women that you’ve got dancing around in your head; so pretty and delicate up on its pedestal, we can’t let all those other men who aren’t as intelligent and enlightened as you go and get their horrid man-stink all over it by making crude jokes in a thread on the internet that was started with crude jokes!They aren’t made of glass and spun sugar, asshole. They don’t melt on contact with innuendo. Some of them are even self-actualized and sexually liberated enough to enjoy a bit of insinuation every now and then–you can usually tell when you’re dealing with one of these when they make the jokes about themselves first, which, you were in too much of a rush to cash in to note, was precisely what happened. You’ve been left behind, it seems, to keep company with hysterical attention-whores like Rebecca Watson, while the movement whose name you try to leach prestige from moves on without you. I’m going to assume that you’re one of those guys who makes a conscious effort to be “friends” with at least a few real women so you can trot that “friendship” out as evidence that you aren’t actually as much of a chauvinist as the men you rail against online when someone calls you out on your hypocrisy, so I’ll give you some advice for their sakes: if you try to treat them the way you’ve tacitly treated the women of the internet in this white-knighting tour de force, the condescension will drive them away faster than you can protest that the Vagina Monologues are your favorite theatrical production.

  33. No, Watson did NOT talk about a post about a 15 y/o girl. She talked about a post about A GIRL. Posters needed to read the comment thread to know her age, which was found after someone went through her post history. Reddittors do not read comments like this, especially not if they have a “funny remarks” to say about someone.On the other hand, what they would have seen though if they read the comments would have been that girl acting like she didn’t mind the crap at all. And how is a piece titled “Reddit Makes Me Hate Atheists” not about a specific group of person? Why is everyone retconning her posts as being about “All Atheists”? Oh yeah, it’s because she didn’t have a point to start with, so the point was made for her by the rabid fans.The whole “Oh they posted a pic that makes fun of how woman take pictures” is completely stupid. It’s a long running joke on Reddit, and it’s not even insulting. The corrections was posted numerous times all over reddit, and it continues to creep up in posts made by woman. Once again though, it creep up *all over Reddit*. It has *nothing* to do with /r/atheism or the atheist community.To pretend that this is a problem with /r/atheism is even worse. That post was front paged, any number of unsuscribed idiots could have made comments. I’m sorry, but when about 1 out of 10 comments in /r/atheism treads that do the fronpage is “Circlejerk!” and “Atheists are babies”, I think that we can safely say that not only atheists posts in atheism threads.Yes, there is a problem with Atheists/Skeptics and sexism, but IT IS THE SAME PROBLEM AS ANY OTHER GATHERINGS DOMINATED BY MALES. We are dogs, we can’t control ourselves. No, it’s not an excuse, it’s saying that being “skeptics” is no assurance that this will change. Targeting a specific atheistic community like Watson and Blag Hag love to do is completely ridiculous. It makes all atheists look like schism loving theists.

  34. The Dude is right. and personally I seriously doubt half the comments were meant to be taken seriously. This is the internet… and quite frankly I STILL don’t have a sammich over here…

  35. Why do people on reddit keep posting blogs from people who don’t have the slightest clue what they are talking about? Can’t we just ignore them for once.

  36. Erm.. You’re aware that reddit doesn’t check for credentials when you post something, right? I mean, there are christian posts in /r/atheism every day. Why would you assume the posts you disagree with were made by aheists? Are you saying that if the picture was in /r/catholicism it would not have gotten the same comments from the same people? FFS it reached top page, didn’t it? Anyone would have seen it, from hindus to muslims. Just because the picture was posted in a subreddit does not mean only people that follow the philosophy of that subreddit post there. Otherwise every cop that’s working internet chatrooms trying to bust pedophiles would be a pedophile themselves just ’cause he’s there.

  37. This is just ridiculous, the article is titled ATHEIST misogyny. How can you possibly claim you didn’t mean atheists have a higher degree of misogyny than other demographics? You wrote an article about redditors’ misogynistic reactions to a post, made it seem as though those redditors somehow represented atheists (you know anyone can access r/atheism right?), and went on further to presume that misogyny is an issue in the atheist community. In a previous response to my comment, you said “I said nothing about atheists as a whole being more misogynistic than other demographics… My point is that I don’t approve of the behavior and will loudly say
    that when confronted with it as a means to hopefully remind people that
    it isn’t acceptable.”Then why single out atheists? You have no evidence for misogynistic behaviour coming from atheists, only from redditors.  Why single out ANYONE, as you have no idea whether any other demographic might have reacted differently?  If you want to speak out against misogyny, speak out against misogyny.  Do NOT bundle atheists, or any group, into your ramblings until you have sufficient evidence to do so.As I said before, you are creating a negative stereotype for atheists, even by the title alone. Please, just leave us alone.

  38. Jim, just want to say this a great post and it is nice to see men speak up against misogyny. It’s truly sad how many men (like on this post) will defend misogyny to the death rather than admit they are complicit by not speaking up against sexist remarks (or up voting comments). Men (atheist or not), if you don’t speak up, the true assholes of your community think they have your support and will continue to sully the image of your group.

  39. What is the point of the story at the top of this article? Your sister had abnormally large breasts that drew attention from males. So what?If I were attracted to man because he has nice abs and pecs, that wouldn’t make me a misandrist. Likewise, attraction to the physical qualities of a female does not make one a misogynist.

  40. Not sure if some of the posters here read the same article I did. Go Jim, you are right to hold to a higher standard those who hold themselves as examples of the higher standard. In no way were you applying the label to the entirety of the atheists, and I echo the sentiments of many of the posters here who, like me, understand that misogyny exists, it exists in all groups of individuals, and that as a group of individuals who look towards a progression for humanity in general, we should seek to mitigate it and expunge it from our circles as readily as we seek to challenge the other false ideas that propagate throughout our society.      

  41. Shadowin, Jim isn’t saying that the attraction is unreasonable or sexist. He’s talking about the behaviour people chose in response to that attraction. And it does relate to this issue because victim blaming has happened in both cases. My 10 cents: Lots of variations of “Have you seen those norgs?! How’s a guy supposed to do nothing? Amiright?” are used to get away with what Jim described his sister tolerating.  It’s casually thrown out as justification for treating someone badly, much like has been done here with “well, she invited it.”  It’s (weak, self-protective, half-considered) victim blaming when someone says “I don’t condone that behaviour!…   But she started it.” She’s either responsible for what other people typed, or she’s not. 

  42. After all this time and you sensationalist “feminists” have failed show that their is a misogyny problem in the atheist community. The fact that you would use r/atheism as an example just highlights your idiocy. Do you even understand how reddit works? Probably not, you aren’t interested in reality, just drama. Also, you’re tough guy statement about punching misogyny in the teeth… grow up.

  43. Pingback: Worth reading – Part I at Purple NoiZe

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